When you processed guilt like Matt did, rationality didn't fully enter the picture. Karen knew just what trying to dwell on them equally taking blame where it was only fair would amount to, and who knew how Matt might grow over the next stage of his life. Where his mind was then? He didn't, wouldn't, believe that she should blamed for much at all, and he'd never be forced into claiming so, not with his current mindset.
He was stubborn as hell, taking after his old man in that area. Of course he wanted Foggy back in his life, yet he didn't think he deserved that, not unless his oldest friend wanted to be back in the same way as before. Maybe they could never go back, and only time would tell. Admitting defeat there, when it came to Foggy, hurt; yet, both lawyers had said that it was time to close up their shop together, and that they'd see one another around. Maybe, probably. Who knew. It was depressing, but reality often was.
"You never should have had to go through that alone," he offered up at first, peering down for a second when he felt her hands go tight around his.
Swallowing, keeping the sound from being as hard as it otherwise would've been, he took in all that she said, trying to keep his expression as even as possible. It wasn't easy, especially since it was Karen saying all of what fell from her lips.
Talk about having a bit of double standard for one of his best friends, for the woman he'd honestly wanted to take a path of deeper affections toward. He may not go around saying it, but he'd loved her as a friend for so long, and he'd wanted more. He knew, right away, how biased he'd be. Even so, there were facts about the whole of the circumstance. Ones that allowed for biases.
Swallowing again when she brought up Ben, when he smelled and heard those tears at her eyes, Matt scooted his chair in as close to hers as he could get, knowing how potentially obtrusive the closeness was, but needing to be there as any semblance of a rock for her, if he could be.
"Karen," he started, "I don't want you turning yourself in, not for anything like this. Fisk's a...if there were a category of people that don't deserve being around to cause chaos, he'd fit in that group, and so did Wesley. You didn't get anyone killed, Karen," which the hyprocrisy of the statement wouldn't be unknown to him if he thought of it for even a few moments. Matt was, indeed, the sort of person to take full responsibility for the death of another, even if it hadn't been his fault.
"He," Ben, "knew," a swallow, "what the risks were in his field. I know he did. Every good journalist does, when they're going around like he did."
After a few seconds of silence, his focus drawn entirely on her, he managed to ask, "Why would you think I want you to turn yourself in? What good could that even do?" What a loaded question. Asking it risked her being deeply upset, and he should have known better, should've pondered why she thought that. If he had, he could've come up with reasons, yet he was clinging to getting an answer directly from her.
After just a beat, and a roaring epiphany of what she'd just recently mentioned, lips parting and jaw holding open for a moment, he asked with a troubled expression, "It's not because of what I've said, about how there's always a way that doesn't include killing? That doesn't apply to this, Karen. You didn't have a choice, and I know that if you had, you would've taken it." His tone rose with heat, his words utterly firm.
Bringing his other hand up to hold over hers folded against his, he squeezed them, leaning in closer to her and adding, "If there were no other way to protect you, Foggy, anyone else I've loved before...Karen..." he shook his head, needing to admit to this to her, even if it seemed to defy all he ever stood for, "I wouldn't let anyone hurt or kill either of you, anyone I hold dear. Push came to shove, if I could have been in those exact shoes you were in, I would've done the same." Meaning that if he weren't capable of having injured Wesley and getting him into police custody, etc, and she hoped she knew that was what he meant. She knew what Daredevil was capable of, after all.
As for Wesley being allowed to live even after making threats against them all? Well, yeah, he would've let him, if it had been possible. He wasn't coming out and saying that, nor was he lying to Karen in anything he said.
The whole of the situation was so entirely different since it happened to Karen, and she must know that.
"I'll always be on your side," he added simply, meaning it completely. "I promise."
Re: Karen Page | Daredevil
He was stubborn as hell, taking after his old man in that area. Of course he wanted Foggy back in his life, yet he didn't think he deserved that, not unless his oldest friend wanted to be back in the same way as before. Maybe they could never go back, and only time would tell. Admitting defeat there, when it came to Foggy, hurt; yet, both lawyers had said that it was time to close up their shop together, and that they'd see one another around. Maybe, probably. Who knew. It was depressing, but reality often was.
"You never should have had to go through that alone," he offered up at first, peering down for a second when he felt her hands go tight around his.
Swallowing, keeping the sound from being as hard as it otherwise would've been, he took in all that she said, trying to keep his expression as even as possible. It wasn't easy, especially since it was Karen saying all of what fell from her lips.
Talk about having a bit of double standard for one of his best friends, for the woman he'd honestly wanted to take a path of deeper affections toward. He may not go around saying it, but he'd loved her as a friend for so long, and he'd wanted more. He knew, right away, how biased he'd be. Even so, there were facts about the whole of the circumstance. Ones that allowed for biases.
Swallowing again when she brought up Ben, when he smelled and heard those tears at her eyes, Matt scooted his chair in as close to hers as he could get, knowing how potentially obtrusive the closeness was, but needing to be there as any semblance of a rock for her, if he could be.
"Karen," he started, "I don't want you turning yourself in, not for anything like this. Fisk's a...if there were a category of people that don't deserve being around to cause chaos, he'd fit in that group, and so did Wesley. You didn't get anyone killed, Karen," which the hyprocrisy of the statement wouldn't be unknown to him if he thought of it for even a few moments. Matt was, indeed, the sort of person to take full responsibility for the death of another, even if it hadn't been his fault.
"He," Ben, "knew," a swallow, "what the risks were in his field. I know he did. Every good journalist does, when they're going around like he did."
After a few seconds of silence, his focus drawn entirely on her, he managed to ask, "Why would you think I want you to turn yourself in? What good could that even do?" What a loaded question. Asking it risked her being deeply upset, and he should have known better, should've pondered why she thought that. If he had, he could've come up with reasons, yet he was clinging to getting an answer directly from her.
After just a beat, and a roaring epiphany of what she'd just recently mentioned, lips parting and jaw holding open for a moment, he asked with a troubled expression, "It's not because of what I've said, about how there's always a way that doesn't include killing? That doesn't apply to this, Karen. You didn't have a choice, and I know that if you had, you would've taken it." His tone rose with heat, his words utterly firm.
Bringing his other hand up to hold over hers folded against his, he squeezed them, leaning in closer to her and adding, "If there were no other way to protect you, Foggy, anyone else I've loved before...Karen..." he shook his head, needing to admit to this to her, even if it seemed to defy all he ever stood for, "I wouldn't let anyone hurt or kill either of you, anyone I hold dear. Push came to shove, if I could have been in those exact shoes you were in, I would've done the same." Meaning that if he weren't capable of having injured Wesley and getting him into police custody, etc, and she hoped she knew that was what he meant. She knew what Daredevil was capable of, after all.
As for Wesley being allowed to live even after making threats against them all? Well, yeah, he would've let him, if it had been possible. He wasn't coming out and saying that, nor was he lying to Karen in anything he said.
The whole of the situation was so entirely different since it happened to Karen, and she must know that.
"I'll always be on your side," he added simply, meaning it completely. "I promise."